Coosa Valley Cachers

FYI..... Here is a copy of the E-mail I sent to Geocaching.com

There was a subject posted on the Coosa Valley Geocachers Forum a couple of months ago about caches hidden on Berry College in Rome Ga. I took it on myself, since I have some contacts at the college, to talk to the Director of Forestry Operations at Berry. There are several caches hidden and listed on the Geocaching web site, none of which have permission from the college to be hidden on the property. There was no great concern at this time for any of them except one (GCJ1BR) which is on a WMA area. Hunting season will open there in a few weeks and this one probably needs to be archived now and removed after the season closes. The college will be updating its land usage regulations in the coming months and I wanted to get involved with the process early so that we won't be excluded. At this point it looks like they will allow us to use the property for caches but they have not defined how they will log and control this type of activity or in which areas it will be allowed. Until then you may want to archive any cache that falls within the Berry College boundaries. FYI there are a few of the cache owners who think they got permission, but the people they got permission from do not have authority to grant such permissions. This information can be verified by contacting the (Name removed) Director of Forestry Operations, Land Resources, Berry College (phone number removed). Please let me know if you need further information. I will be glade to coordinate any further contact with Berry over this issue.


Thanks,

Sandy


Ref: GCTRX1, GCPYC2, GCT5EE, GC16AFB, GC10Y7C, GC13G5R, GCJ1BR

Nice of you to come in and appoint yourself "Guardian of Caches" for the area.


Though I no longer have any active caches hidden on Berry property, I have had several in the past.
Berry's properties are some of the most beautiful and well maintained properties in the country and was "until recently" commonly thought of to be public accessible. Until we found out that they were considering changes in their land use rules, most folks didn't know any different. Even some non-cachers that I've spoke with that use Berry's land for other means of recreation (Hiking, Biking, Running, ...)
I personally want anyone coming into our area to visit the Berry campus, whether they cache or not, due to the beauty and wealth of history that is there. I consider it to be the crowned jewel of Floyd County.

I feel as you have stabbed every cache owner of the caches listed in the email in the back without giving them the chance to go through proper channels to get official permission from the person you mentioned (kinda) in the post with "the authority" to grant said permission.

Oh yeah, while on the subject, nice of you to (Name Removed) & (Phone Number Removed) on the post there. That's really letting those of us that didn't get said proper "permission" from the "one with the authority" the information we need to know actually get that "permission".

I personally think you WAY overstepped your boundries by emailing GC.com and requesting the Berry caches be archived.

As you said in your post on March 18th, (quote) "they are not overly concerned at this time". (unquote)

What gives you the right to email GC.com and ask that "all" Berry caches be arcived until Berry decides what they will or will not allow??

I do hope that whoever recieved your email will read the entire post to know that the caches "at this time" are not illegal.

While, as you say, permission was not granted by the "one" with the authority, permission "was given" by whomever was percieved with the authority at that time to give such approval. Now that the "one" that does have that authority knows about said caches and is (quote)"not overly concerned at this time"(unquote), constittutes official approval under GC.com rules (as I understand them), until Berry changes their land use rules and requires the caches removal.
Which at that time, if it happens, every cache will gladly be archived and removed by the cache owners and we'll go along on our merry ways placing caches in more cache friendly environments in the Rome area.

Thanks to your "concern" we now know that there is that "one" that has to be contacted to get permission. We don't know who that "one" is, but we do know he has to be found.
(I kinda feel like I'm in a new movie called "The Berry Cache Matrix" )
Now that The Powers That Be at Berry are aware of the caches that are on the property and have no problem with them according to their current policies, I don't see why they would need to be archived.

Please let me know if you need further information. I will be glade to coordinate any further contact with Berry over this issue.

This is what really burns me the most!

You know, it would have been really nice if this offer had been made to "us", the members of the Coosa Valley Cachers. The "ONLY" official group representing Geocaching in the Rome centered area. Since we formed this group to promote Geocaching in our area, it'd be really nice if you'd invite us to your little party. Especially since you seem to have the "only" contact with the proper authority to inform us of what will or will not be allowed on Berry in the future.
Don't you think we need to be a part of any meetings that are taking place so we can voice our thoughts & ideas on decisions that may affect caching in our area? Don't you think they need to meet the people that are here to make sure that only good things come out of caching on Berry and get to know us as real individuals instead of just some weird screenname on a computer?

What the heck is a "gridlox" anyway!?! Right?
Actually there is a really neat story behind my screen name. (another time) If I was to never share it with someone interested in knowing me as an individual, then I'm just some weirdo tech geek with an equally weird name.

By the way, what is "your" GC.com screen name?
I just spent the last 20 minutes scanning through all the logs of the caches listed in the email and unless I just overlooked it, I don't see where you have even found any of the caches in question.
But then again I was looking for "Sand-Man"
Have you even found any of these caches to know what you are trying to destroy?

OMG!! I just realized you don't even live in our area.
I had misread your location as "Transplanted "TO" Georgia from Oklahoma". Not the other way around.
Knowing that, it upsets me even more that you are circumventing the local cachers concerning policies that will affect us directly, when you only pass through from time to time. And apparently, unless you cache by another name, don't even cache while your here.


I'm going to stop here before I say something I shouldn't.

D-man

I'm not sure what you are so personally offended over here. I have a right as a citizen of this country to live a free life, come and go as I please. I'm sure I won't find your name on any document that says D-Man governs this game, Coosa Valley Geocaching or the right to question my freedom to talk to whom ever I wish or voice my opinion. The governing body of Berry College was already aware of the caches hidden on their Property and is considering allowing us to continue this game on their property because someone came over there and talked to them about it...... And BTW this subject has been posted on the forum for a long time and members of CVG are aware of my involvement from the get go and if you read the rest of the post on the forum you will see that I was ask to let CYG know what was going on during those meetings. You along with any other cacher had the right to comment, observe, or even join me in those meetings. Why didn’t you speak up before?

If you want to get mad at someone, get mad at the ones who broke the rules and caused Berry to consider banning the game from their property. Remember, no matter what you think, Berry is privately owned. BTW, I was born in Rome and spent 45 years living there. I consider my contact with Berry as helping, and BTW, it has. If you want to get mad at someone and engage in a pissing contest you might consider doing it with the cache owners who broke the rules. That’s the kind of thing that makes land owners like Berry College dislike caching and ban it from private property.

Sandy

Sand-Man (My registered name on CVG and geocaching.com)

Well as I really have not seen anyone but Sandy post much since November, I am glad Sandy did continue to go thru the steps to protect what could. Sandy has honestly (from what i have seen in posts), been following thru on letting all know what she could. It is always nice to give others time to respond to any conceerns they may have about Sandy single handedly going to the *Person in Charge*, But if hmm let me count 4-5 months is not enought, I just dont know what to tell ya.
Deaglos AKA Dave, and I am the only Deaglos on the blooming internet, and 99% of the links out there come back to me, so not I am not hard to find. The other 1% belongs to an old comic book from the 40's

I did not have permission from my contact to distribute or post his name and phone number on the forum. When this issue is resolved by the governing body of Berry, and BTW it is the Board of Directors, with his permission I will post the name and phone number of the person who they say has the authority to grant permissions. If you want to continue your personal attack on me you can E-mail me direct at sandysnowhorse@yahoo.com. If you'd like to become a contributing component to the discussions and meetings you can E-mail me at the same address. Heck, if you want to take the lead I will be glade to step aside. But I would suggest that contact with Berry should be organized and professional….

Here is the facts:

1)Individuals do not have the right to use Berry College Campus for personal uses such as Geocaching. Hiking, biking, and horseback riding activities are by design and on approved trails which are also governed by rules.

2)There have been no permissions given to anyone to hide anything on Berry Property.

3)Berry is privately owned and use of the property is by permission only.

Their concerns:

1)Safety of students and individuals who traverse the property.

2)The WMA is leased to the Georgia Wildlife Federation and Berry does not have the right of permissions on that part of the property without consent of GWF. Individuals caught trespassing on the WMA can be arrested and fined, not to mention being accidentally shot by a hunter. However, Berry is negotiating with GWF to allow geocaching type activities outside of regulated hunting seasons and under certain guidelines as they have for existing activities.




Berry College Campus is one of the most beautiful places in the world. I think we agree on that. I take this issue on because I have a personal attachment to Berry. I grew up at the foot of Lavender Mountain and ran all over that mountain and the back side of Berry as a kid. That college exist for the sole purpose of providing higher education to those who chose. The general public is allowed access out of the goodness of the folks who run the facility and make the decisions concerning Berry. We do not have a right to be there. There is a big difference between "rights" and "permission". They can close the gates anytime they chose.

All that being said, to put it in a nutshell, any cache that is hidden on Berry College property is in violation of the law. Anyone who participates in an illegal activity is a trespasser. A cache listed on the geocashing.com website that is on Berry College is in violation of the geocaching rules and guidelines. If we want that to change, we cachers will have to be patient and abide by the rules. Berry is considering allowing this activity.

Sandy, (BTW I am a HE not a HER)……No offence taken.

umm lol i know you are a he, i just mistyped as I have two lil girls beating me up wanting more easter candy. I wholeheartedly support you and hope it turns out well for all cachers everywhere.
Deag

And I thank you for your support...... It was nice to see your post after being bashed by the previous cacher/amin..... I'll continue to keep this forum posted.


Happy Easter Y'all

Sandy,

I apologize for the attack.
While I was upset at your actions, I really can't attack you personally, because I don't know you. I do hope that changes in the future.

I honestly have no problem what-so-ever with you contacting Berry to find out information on what they intend to do and applaud you for it.

What I have a problem with is that while you have been keeping us informed (Thank You), we "as locals" really need to be involved in the process of representing ourselves. I would love to be a part of the group that is representing us when it concerns our ability to actively promote good caching qualities to people that are unfamiliar with geocaching in our area.

On Dec 26, 2007 you write:

I got a reply from Berry about the Land usage but no usefull information yet.

OK, cool! As they say sometimes - "No news is good news"

One month goes by and on Jan 25, 2008 you write:

I will contact them again today and see if there has been any activity or discussions. If I don't get anything out of them I'll pass along the contact information to you by E-mail and you can approach this in person. But right now I would say that there is no big concern or I am sure I would have gotten a cease and desist request right off the bat.

(Emphasis added by me)

Alrighty then, seems that we really have nothing to worry about at this time. Let's go caching!

A few weeks later on Feb 16, 2008 you write:

I guess they are not as anxious as we had thought about changing the land use policies. I haven't heard a thing out of these folks but they are still working on some changes. It might not be a bad idea to get written permission for any future hides on the property. I'll post any future information here as I get it....

Cool, looks as if things are going in our favor. And I totally agree about seeking permission on future hides.

OK, now roll ahead another month to Mar 18, 2008:

I met with Berry land managers this morning concerning the issues. Berry's board is currently considering the impact of Geocaching on the campus. While they are not overly concerned at this time, there are a few things that they wanted us to be aware of. The largest wilderness area on Berry are leased to the state for WMA. Any approvals they give for land usage in those areas have to abide by the state guidelines. Geocaching has to be made aware that the WMA areas are not accessible during regulated hunting season.... which by the way will open (Turkey) in just a few weeks. I will continue to update this forum as this issue develops.

WHOA!! Hold up! Put on the brakes!! SKREEEETCH!!

What meeting?
When & where was it held?
Why were we "the local cachers" not informed that a meeting had been arranged and allowed to be a part of something that would affect us and our continued ability to use the beautiful Berry campus.

Sorry that I didn't voice my concerns over not being a part of this meeting when you posted it, but it has been a few days since I had time to actually spend time online reading what was posted. If I had read it before last night, I would have voiced my concern about not being involved before now.

Now we get to the "meat and potatoes" of the reason I'm upset with your actions:
In your letter to GC.com you stated that while the caches on the property did not have previous permission, the Berry officials were not overly conerned about them and would probably allow them to remain after the land use policies were written and put into effect. (other than the one on WMA property) But then later in the letter you recommend that "all" the caches on Berry property be archived.
Why do you think that the caches need to be archived and removed when you say that the Berry officials seem to be OK with them?
Other than the one cache that is on the WMA property all of them fall within GC.com allowable cache rules.
With new restrictions coming down regularly on allowable areas to place quality caches, I don't see the need to red flag this one to GC.com when there are ongoing discussions with the Berry officials to self govern our area and hoefully keep their campus a viable area to place future quality caches for everyone to visit.

We as a group of locals need to be involved in this process and need to be informed of any future meetings so we "can" be involved to show a positive front.
I'm not sure how serious the Berry officials really percieve our commitment to seeing that we care about what goes on at the campus with concerns to quality caching when the only person coming to meet with them isn't part of the local contengient of cachers.

Sandy please don't take me wrong and stop what you have been doing. But please work with us locals to keep us informed of future meetings so "we can be involved".
I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure there are at least a couple of others as well, that would love to be of some assitance in keeping a good working relationship with the folks at Berry. But, if we don't know we can't help.

Take care my friend and have a great Easter!

D-man (Dwayne)

Apology accepted…

My meeting with Berry was informal and was mainly to gain information on how the coming changes would impact the game. I was in Rome to visit with my son for the last time before he leaves for Iraq and had a few minutes to spare. It just so happened that I was there and my contact had a few minutes to spare as well so we met. There is a lady in his office that is a active cacher… I’m sorry I don’t know her name but she was very helpful and informative as well…

The comments about Berry not being overly concerned are my own opinion and probably should have been omitted as I see now they were confusing. Nobody is going to go out and confiscate the existing caches. The issue has been escalated to the Board of Directors for consideration. There are several aspects and legalities that have to be addressed before the board can make a decision. Berry’s 1st consideration has to be to the students and safety and they have some valid concerns. This issue is not going to be resolved over night. So the next time I am in Rome, Probably in April, I’d love to meet with the local area cachers and talk about where we are and any future meetings. At this point they are open to granting us the privilege but there will defiantly be some changes on how and where were we play the game. I can tell you that the one on the WMA area will most likely have to be moved. But I think it prudent to stop any activity on the campus until we get permission to continue.

Here is a scenario:

Let’s say that a cacher is searching for “Lavender Green” and stumbles across a hunter. The hunter mistakenly thinks that the cacher is a Turkey or a Deer and shoots them dead. The only entities that are not supposed to be there are the cache and the cacher. Who do you think will be named on the ensuing litigation? Not to mention the loss of life that is directly due to not following the rules to start with…


I love playing this game. It has brought my family another outdoor activity that we can enjoy together. Lets be responsible and play the game by the rules. If we approach this thing with respect for the land owners then we project a responsible reputation and thereby gain further access to areas that my otherwise have been lost.

I should know in the next few weeks when I will be there…. What other excuse do we need to have a eat and greet? We might even get a rep from Berry to join us…

Sand-Man wrote:I should know in the next few weeks when I will be there…. What other excuse do we need to have a eat and greet? We might even get a rep from Berry to join us…

Sounds like a good idea!

Even if we don't have an "officially" posted event we can stilll get together and at least grab a bite for lunch one day.

Sorry again to have jumped to conclusions. It just "seemed" as if you were coming in and taking control of the situation without consulting us, with talks of meetings with the directors & such.

Maybe now that we are on the same page, we can work together to keep Berry as a viable option to bring folks to quality caching in our area.

**************
The lady was probably Lisa Hall (aka Pink Lisa).
**************

I love playing this game. It has brought my family another outdoor activity that we can enjoy together. Lets be responsible and play the game by the rules. If we approach this thing with respect for the land owners then we project a responsible reputation and thereby gain further access to areas that my otherwise have been lost.

AMEN!!

D-man

Here is the latest Recreational Use Policies for Public Use of Berry Property. This will be posted on the Berry web site at www.berry.edu in the near future. Notice the last paragraph which contains contact information for special use permits....

Since I have been dubed the "Cache Gaurdian" I would think that if a person gained permision thru the proper channels, they should includ a link to the rules when it gets approved and posted on the Berry web site.

Gridlox and I are going to get together for a mini meet and greet some time in the next few week. Anyone care to join us just chine in and we'll try to let everyone know when and where... I don't know about you but BBQ sounds good.[url=WEBSITE_HOMEuploads/get/313615][img]WEBSITE_HOMEstorage/t1/52642Berry_reg_1.jpg[/img][/url][url=WEBSITE_HOMEuploads/get/313618][img]WEBSITE_HOMEstorage/t1/2520Berry_reg_2.jpg[/img][/url]

Well that didn't work....

I'll see if I can get an eleectronic copy and post it. In the mean time..


"To request clarification of these policies or to seek special use permits, please contact Alan Story, Director of Community Relations, at 706-290-2140"

Please let me know when this meeting is to be. I would like to attend also.

Looks like they are finally coming out with some of the changes that are being implemented.


Article From the Rome New-Tribune website that was posted this afternoon

Hiking, biking, horse trails designated at Berry College

03/26/08
By Andrea Freygang / RN-T staff writer


Berry College officials have released maps for the designated trails on their campus.

In July 2007, the college began looking for a way to be good stewards of the land, balance student and public use and create safer trails. The new trails officially went into effect March 15.

“Our number one goal was to enhance recreation opportunities for students and the Berry community,” said Jeanne Matthews, assistant vice president of public relations for Berry. “We had to make internal decisions as to how to use the property and make it available to the public in a reasonable way, so we established policies for the safety of individuals and the property.”

Horseback riders now have two trail heads with parking areas, 15 miles of designated trails and kiosks for information. Horses are no longer allowed at the reservoir to water, but can be watered at Swafford Hallow Pond near the southern entrance.

All bikers and hikers must enter through Berry’s main gate on Martha Berry Highway.

Matthews said these entrances are important because it allows the college to post information about activities on the campus, whether it’s student research activities such as controlled burns, or animal hunts sponsored by the Dept.of Natural Resources. Information will also be posted online.

Click below to view 'Berry College trail maps' (PDF)
http://www1.romenews-tribune.com/Files/Documents/berrytrails.pdf

Hmmm...

In my graphics program I overlaid the Geocaching.com map of this area of Berry over the Walking/Hiking Trails map and it looks like the "Lavender Green" cache is right near one of the designated trails.



So, "just maybe" this one will be allowed to stay.

I'm not positive on the WMA regulations, but I think that caches are allowed as long as permission is given by the land manager of the WMA area the cache is placed.

Anyone know who that would be for this particular area?

Unfortunately I haven't been physically able to grab this one (yet) but everyone that does find it puts it near the top of their list of memorable hunts.

It'd be really nice if this one was allowed to stay active.

D-man